You could use the exact same argument to "prove" that there is no child prostitution in Thailand (to give one example). "Those girls have fathers/brothers/uncles/grandfathers, they'd smash skulls!" No. First of all, plenty of them have no family to speak of, or they have a single mom. That's what makes them vulnerable. Those who have a family overwhelmingly come from poor and dysfunctional families. (I'm not saying "poor = dysfunctional." I'm saying both-and.) You see a couple of exceptions here and there, and those exceptions are "mistakes" on the part of the rapists, because that's who causes headaches.
Sex workers in Thailand aren’t the “average Jane”.
Your argument is silly because you’re trying to take a fringe element in society (namely prostitutes) and then going “this is what most British girls are like à la being super vulnerable and no better than prostitutes when it comes to their family ties…”
First off… this is not the “debunking” you think it is and second off… let’s just say I don’t buy this nonsensical excuse that “every girl is no better than a prostitute with zero protections max vulnerability and nobody to call up” 😉
Who said they were average British girls? They quite obviously weren't. They were particularly vulnerable (many were in foster care), which is why they were victimized, and also why the state was so slow to do anything about it, despite the fact that there were thousands of victims.
"Some victims were vulnerable” does not prove “Pakistani rape gangs were a real ethnic/community phenomenon.” It merely proves predators target vulnerable people, which is true everywhere & is a basic tautology.
You’re quietly switching claims:
1. Claim A: vulnerable girls existed... Correct.
2. Claim B: Therefore, the “Pakistani rape gang” framing is proven... Nope!
3. Claim C: Thus, ethnicity/culture explains it. Also false unless you actually show comparative evidence, not vibes!
Foster care, poverty, bad families, state failure, police cowardice, & institutional neglect explain vulnerability... however, they do not magically turn a criminal network into proof of collective ethnic guilt.
Your Thailand analogy is even worse:
Child prostitution in Thailand is a specific form of exploitation economy. British grooming cases were failures of safeguarding, policing, care systems, and local criminal offending. Treating both as “see, poor girls get abused, therefore my racial narrative wins” is not analysis. It’s laundering prejudice through victim sympathy.
So yes: vulnerable girls were targeted. That indicts predators and institutions. It does not validate your cartoon ethnic morality play.
Claim B does not follow from Claim A, obviously. The fact that there are vulnerable humans does not prove alien kidnappings. But there's plenty of independent evidence for the existence of Pakistani rape gangs. You wanna deny it? Eh. Can't say I'm all that surprised.
The disagreement is over your leap from “some offenders were Pakistani” to an ethnic explanation for the entire phenomenon.
Ironically, pointing out that many victims were in foster care or otherwise highly vulnerable strengthens the vulnerability explanation, not the ethnic one. That’s the point you’re still dodging! 😉
A rough equivalent of the Pakistani rape gangs is the Italian mafia. Most Pakistanis are not gang rapists, and most Italians are not (and never were) in the mafia. That does not erase the ethnic component, though. Also, Pakistani communities that these rapists hail from were not in any particular hurry to get their "bad apples" behind bars.
Re: the "nonexistence" of Pakistani rape gangs
You could use the exact same argument to "prove" that there is no child prostitution in Thailand (to give one example). "Those girls have fathers/brothers/uncles/grandfathers, they'd smash skulls!" No. First of all, plenty of them have no family to speak of, or they have a single mom. That's what makes them vulnerable. Those who have a family overwhelmingly come from poor and dysfunctional families. (I'm not saying "poor = dysfunctional." I'm saying both-and.) You see a couple of exceptions here and there, and those exceptions are "mistakes" on the part of the rapists, because that's who causes headaches.
Sex workers in Thailand aren’t the “average Jane”.
Your argument is silly because you’re trying to take a fringe element in society (namely prostitutes) and then going “this is what most British girls are like à la being super vulnerable and no better than prostitutes when it comes to their family ties…”
First off… this is not the “debunking” you think it is and second off… let’s just say I don’t buy this nonsensical excuse that “every girl is no better than a prostitute with zero protections max vulnerability and nobody to call up” 😉
Who said they were average British girls? They quite obviously weren't. They were particularly vulnerable (many were in foster care), which is why they were victimized, and also why the state was so slow to do anything about it, despite the fact that there were thousands of victims.
"Some victims were vulnerable” does not prove “Pakistani rape gangs were a real ethnic/community phenomenon.” It merely proves predators target vulnerable people, which is true everywhere & is a basic tautology.
You’re quietly switching claims:
1. Claim A: vulnerable girls existed... Correct.
2. Claim B: Therefore, the “Pakistani rape gang” framing is proven... Nope!
3. Claim C: Thus, ethnicity/culture explains it. Also false unless you actually show comparative evidence, not vibes!
Foster care, poverty, bad families, state failure, police cowardice, & institutional neglect explain vulnerability... however, they do not magically turn a criminal network into proof of collective ethnic guilt.
Your Thailand analogy is even worse:
Child prostitution in Thailand is a specific form of exploitation economy. British grooming cases were failures of safeguarding, policing, care systems, and local criminal offending. Treating both as “see, poor girls get abused, therefore my racial narrative wins” is not analysis. It’s laundering prejudice through victim sympathy.
So yes: vulnerable girls were targeted. That indicts predators and institutions. It does not validate your cartoon ethnic morality play.
Claim B does not follow from Claim A, obviously. The fact that there are vulnerable humans does not prove alien kidnappings. But there's plenty of independent evidence for the existence of Pakistani rape gangs. You wanna deny it? Eh. Can't say I'm all that surprised.
Nobody’s denying offenders existed.
The disagreement is over your leap from “some offenders were Pakistani” to an ethnic explanation for the entire phenomenon.
Ironically, pointing out that many victims were in foster care or otherwise highly vulnerable strengthens the vulnerability explanation, not the ethnic one. That’s the point you’re still dodging! 😉
A rough equivalent of the Pakistani rape gangs is the Italian mafia. Most Pakistanis are not gang rapists, and most Italians are not (and never were) in the mafia. That does not erase the ethnic component, though. Also, Pakistani communities that these rapists hail from were not in any particular hurry to get their "bad apples" behind bars.